Welcome to Mike Calamus’s podcast, the uncensored version of the Voice of America for Estonians, directly from Washington, DC. Hi, I’m from Washington, D.C., Mike Calamus again. Today we have a guest who is on vacation in a nice place in Italy, unlike us, who must work all the time. Welcome, Sebastian Lukomski. He is a Polish politician and political analyst, known for his conservative views.
Mike Calamus: Let’s delve into this. We’re all familiar with Donald Tusk, a figure who embodies liberal policies that may not align with our conservative views. He’s been associated with initiatives such as welcoming Muslim immigrants and promoting LGBT rights. But who is he, and how did he rise to such prominence? Over to you, Sebastian. It’s great to have you here.
Sebastian Lukomski: Thank you so much for having me on, and well, diving straight into your question. Donald Tusk, it’s fair to say, has had a lengthy and experienced life in Polish and European politics. He was the Prime Minister of Poland from 2007 to 2014, and subsequently moved into the European Union, where he served as President of the European Council from 2014 to 2019. In the meantime, he also served as president of the EPP from 2019 to 2022.
And why is this important? Because this shows exactly where his ideals come from, where his connection with Brussels comes from, and more above all, where his connections with the Euro elites, the Eurocrats above all, really have started. So, he was a prime minister during a challenging era for the Polish economy and social situation. We had just entered the European Union a few years earlier, and it was a difficult period.
It was a moment when many Polish people were emigrating to the UK, France, Germany, and the Netherlands. It was a dismal and unsuccessful period for the Polish economy. His background, due to his extensive network in Brussels, led to him being well-supported and endorsed by Eurocrats, Europeans, the European Commission, and the European Parliament. He became a poster boy over there during his time there. And what this meant was that the EU knew who they were targeting.
They knew that they would put in a candidate to complete the eight years of the conservative era in Poland, which was marked by economic success. This era would extend up to the 2023 elections. So, this is when the government changed. And, the opposition party, the liberal opposition party in Poland, the Platforma Obywatelska, by the Civic, they saw him as the best candidate because of experience, because of whatever, however they could sell him, to take over from the eight years of the peace government, the Law and Justice Party, and he succeeded. In 2023, Donald Tusk became the Prime Minister of Poland. Now, his background is highly critical of the conservative movement in Poland, as he favors German and European interests over those of Poland.
This has always been a significant item on his agenda and something very visible in the way he conducts politics and manages things. And we will explore this further later in the program. Still, I think it’s essential to fish out here that his, the main criticism that the Polish conservative movement have to Tusk is not only his liberal, extreme liberal ideology with favoring mass migration and all the liberal movements from the West, but also exactly this, to destroy the sovereignty of the nation state of Poland and further to centralize us towards Brussels and the European Union.
Mike Calamus: My question is, do you know Kaja Kallas? Kaja Kallas is now the Vice President of the European Commission. Her family has always been like an elite communist family. Is it the same with Donald Tusk, or how he became associated with Marxism?
Sebastian Lukomski: Tusk is a master at concealing his liberal tendencies. He’s garnered endorsements from high-profile figures, such as European commissioners and Parliament officials, which makes it challenging to label him with extreme ideologies. However, his actions behind the scenes tell a different story.
What I can mention about him, however, is not only his very comfortable and Christian relationship with the guys in Brussels, but also that he speaks German. He was from Gdansk. His grandfather was in the German army during World War II. So, he has very close ties to Germany. And the fact, you know, the criticisms are not born from nothing.
The criticism that Tusk prioritizes German interests over Polish ones is not to be taken lightly. It has a substantial basis, adding weight to the political discourse.
Mike Calamus: The next question is, in Washington, D.C., we have heard rumors that Donald Tusk is no longer as sharp as he used to be, that he may have Alzheimer’s or a similar condition.
Sebastian Lukomski: I think he’s collapsing a little bit under the stress that he’s being put under. He’s had a tough last few years, especially with the migration issue, which I think is one of the key areas that’s driving him crazy. Additionally, the elections that we will discuss later in the program have brought about a complete standstill in Poland, which will last for the next two years.
The tension is palpable as rumors about Tusk’s mental state circulate. The stress he’s under, particularly due to the migration issue, is taking its toll on him. The upcoming elections and the resulting parliamentary standstill are only adding to the uncertainty.
He has survived a vote of no confidence. I think it was two months ago, which was again pushed by the pressure, stemming from the failures of his government and the coalition. Let’s not forget about the coalition parties that are part of his government. He couldn’t form the government without the coalition parties. And many of them are starting to drift away from his narrative and his ideals as well.
So, yeah, he’s losing his mind more. And it’s not a good moment for him.
Mike Calamus: Let’s delve into the 2023 elections. Once again, we are confronted with rumors. While concrete evidence has yet to emerge, there are whispers that the 2023 elections were influenced by German interests and financial support. Allegations suggest a specialized app was deployed to guide users on voting, favoring the liberal side. Is it plausible that all the financial backing originated from foreign sources? And is Donald Tusk merely a puppet of German influence?
Sebastian Lukomski: Absolutely. And in fact, does that fail to go through? I think it was back in 2021.
A significant proposal must be put forth to ensure that over 51 percent of the media in Poland is owned by Polish entities. Regrettably, this is not the current situation. Over 70 percent of the press is in foreign hands, with a majority owned by German and French companies. The Polish media landscape is predominantly German-owned, thereby presenting a skewed German and European narrative.
This is a pivotal point to grasp. Leading up to elections, we often find ourselves amid propaganda wars. This was the case in 2023, and we are currently witnessing it in the aftermath of the last election. The EU has the potential to align with German interests. It is crucial for those who comprehend European politics to connect these dots.
The EU institutions played a significant role in the elections, particularly through financial pressure. By blocking the €35 billion post-COVID funds, they created economic frustration among the Polish people. This frustration was then directed towards the Law and Justice Party, painting them as incompetent. However, a larger agenda was at play.
They had to, you know, get rid of the Law and Justice Party to put full skin in favor of German and EU interests. So, I think that the media is enormous. It’s a massive issue in Polish elections, always, because in other countries, such as Germany and France, the press is often 80, 90, or even 100 percent owned by the government. I’m not sure what we’re talking about. Why is it so difficult to achieve a majority, considering that over 50 percent of our media is owned by our own country?
This is the problem. And sadly, this is not the case. It has a considerable influence, as well as a massive influence from Germany and external actors. Before the twenty-three elections, the European Commission conducted legal assessments and funding evaluations, such as attempting to delay any funding it could provide to Poland, because it knew it would have an impact. And then NGOs.
I think there’s a massive movement from Soros NGOs now in Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, and other places where they used to be strongholds that would oppose, let’s say, general EU narratives or EU conditions more than anything, but that still stand up to them. Right. So, if it wasn’t direct interference, it was more indirect, yet still very visible. And I would say primarily through media, blackmail, and the freezing of funds, which economically frustrated the Polish government and the Polish electorate.
Mike Calamus: OK, let’s move on. I was in Poland a couple of months ago, and I can attest that Warsaw is a remarkably safe and secure place to be.
There’s a palpable sense of peace in the city, even at night. I didn’t witness any altercations, unlike in D.C. There’s a distinct absence of homelessness, drunken brawls, or drug-related incidents. It’s a serene environment that’s hard to believe until you experience it.
The question is, why does Donald Tusk want to bring in all those immigrants from Germany?
I saw videos where the German police are talking about it. I don’t know how to say it nicely, but let’s say people from Africa, from the Middle East, they’re trying to drop off there in Polish cities. I saw Robert Bąkiewicz fighting for this, but they won’t let it go. Why is it happening?
Sebastian Lukomski: Well, I would start with saying how close Donald Tusk was to Angela Merkel back in the day, when Angela Merkel was the first one who came up with the ‘genius idea’ to open the gates and bring in hundreds of thousands of migrants from all sorts of places around the world, in response to the Syrian refugee crisis and other global conflicts.
And that’s not just the issue. The issue was the element of undocumented documentation, the fact that these migrants were undocumented and were coming from places that were war-torn or rife with terrorism. So, this was this. Let’s say Germany made a huge mistake. Much of the West made a huge mistake with this.
Poland, as I’ve always known it, is one of the safest places I’ve ever been to. It’s a place where people can walk the streets until the early hours of the morning without any concerns. Women and children feel secure, which is a testament to the country’s safety and stability.
There was never, ever an issue of security. I can say from firsthand experience, having been brought up in London, that I could see the differences myself, particularly in how I behave in London compared to how I behave in Warsaw and other Polish cities. It’s wild. Just like you said, with Washington, it’s the same situation. I mean, I was brought up by going to school and, you know, looking for ways to avoid getting mugged or not having a, you know, getting someone coming up with a knife. That’s how I was brought up in Poland.
It’s these things that are out of this world. They have never had to deal with these things ever. Now, why is Tusk doing this now? Because now this is absolute linking, connecting the dots. Right. So, Tusk is bringing this together because he’s serving German interests, seeing that all European economies are crumbling.
The German welfare state is extensive. And they’ve seen that they put simply too many people in. And much of these, some better, some worse, some rotten apples, and some people that you want out of your country as soon as possible. And Chancellor Merz, a key figure in German politics, has had very close relationships with Donald Tusk. And here is a perfect example of how Tusk shakes his hand and says, Yes, of course, we’ll do it.
However, we won’t do it through legislation. We’ll do it quietly in the dark when no one’s watching. This began at the start of the year. And he thought he would start getting away with sending slow buses, different groups of migrants in through various sections of the western border, and with Germany. This sparked outrage when people began to realize the difference in the demographics of small Polish cities, where they would never see a non-Polish person. Right.
People noticed something unusual here. And exactly as you mentioned, there is one of the key conservative figures in Poland, Robert Bąkiewicz. He established a rapid movement, often referred to as the Ruch Obrony Granic, or the Border Security Movement. This was a civil operation, as they were aware that the government was completely complicit. They were aware of what the government was doing. They had their goal of bringing the migrants in and looking the other way.
And they knew that the government also had the border force on their side. This was the sad thing because they had them pretty much working for them. I don’t want to say all because some are still doing a good job. However, what Robert Bąkiewicz ultimately did was huge. He started mobilizing up to five, seven, or nine thousand people, volunteers who would go themselves in their own spare time, on their weekends, and on their days off.
And defend the borders themselves, because the country was unable, the government failed to secure the border. And this became huge worldwide. People from other countries were witnessing what was happening. This sparked massive outrage amongst the government. This got Tusk fuming, but not just Tusk.
The minister of foreign affairs, Sikorski, the minister of interior, Bodnar, all sent firm accusations that they will, well, threats that they will lock Mr. Bonkiewicz in prison, that they will keep everyone who is doing, who is sending the drones because they had camera drones to check who’s coming out, who’s coming. Everyone who’s operating on their own accord started threatening them. And this is now in Poland as we speak. This sparks massive outrage.
And the Ruch Obrony Granic, the volunteer border force led by Robert Bąkiewicz, is having a considerable impact and achieving great success. And every day, people call to join up. I want to help. I want to help. It’s incredible. It’s incredible. The movement has come in.
It shows that when the government is inept, incompetent, and, worse of all, when it is serving a foreign agenda, it is the citizens who step in. And Poland has always been a country where the people step in in moments of crisis to defend what they hold dear. Right. And that’s, I think, a beautiful example of what’s going on now and the success they’re having. And it’s having success because now Tusk is pushing back. Now, there are differences in how they plan to proceed legislatively with this. So, it has become a hot topic in Poland now: the immigration issue.
Mike Calamus: Robert, a figure often compared to Donald Trump, is a potential game-changer in Polish politics. His potential as the next Prime Minister is a hope that carries significant weight. As one of the most prominent Polish politicians in Washington, D.C., his influence could be far-reaching.
There’s a palpable sense of anticipation for the possibility of Robert meeting President Donald Trump. This potential meeting could have significant implications for international relations. But let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Let’s revisit the Polish presidential elections a couple of months ago, featuring the rising star, Karol Nawrocki.
What made him so popular?
Sebastian Lukomski: Alright, let’s delve into what made Karol Nawrocki stand out. He was the underdog who went head-to-head with Rafał Trzaskowski in the final round of the nail-biting presidential elections in May. What set him apart was his ordinary background. He wasn’t a seasoned politician, but a regular guy. His campaign echoed Trump’s 2016 pitch-a call for change, a break from party politics, and a return to the heart of the nation.
That I’m on the side of the party politics; I just want to go to my country. And the narrative. Resounded, I think, among Polish people. Now, Nawrocki was the president of the Institution for Remembrance for Polish Remembrance.
Nawrocki’s appeal lies in his unique stance against communism. His leadership of the Institution for Remembrance for Polish Remembrance, an organization dedicated to preserving Poland’s history and heritage, underscores his commitment to this cause. His staunch anti-communist views and emphasis on Polish heroism have resonated with many.
And so, this is what gained him trust for defending, let’s say, national memory, exposing communist, you know, crimes, and the difficult times that Poland had to endure over the centuries. Right. And of course, on the German rule, too, throughout the last century. I think what happened was that not only can we discuss Rafał Trzaskowski later, but Nawrocki spoke to the heart of the Polish conservative movement and the Polish conservative identity. Let’s say dignity, patriotism, Christian values, family, things that, let’s say, the left and the radical leftists in Poland are seeking to destroy. However, I would say, above all, that in a moment as delicate as this, sovereignty is at stake, and we see month after month how the Tusk government is trying to sell more of our sovereignty to Brussels, the Germans, and outside interests.
Now, he stands in the way of this saying, no, we are Poland first, and we are everything else after that, which is how it should be. I think he managed to bridge the gap between a historical narrative and a historical background, as well as modern politics, coming in as a young candidate. He’s young, with a family as well, and he’s offering not just facts, but meaning and heart to everything that was going on. He’s also very personal on a personal level. He’s very, very, very like the guy.
He spends a lot of time with young people. He does a lot of sports. He participates in numerous sports programs for people in need. He, I think, was a boxer and a runner. He always emphasized the importance of sports for young people.
So that gave him also that element of a man of integrity, courage, and not just, you know, another career politician that people would, you know. To see off, I mean. I think it was a perfect, perfect choice of candidates. And the results showed that.
Mike Calamus: OK, well, I looked at the map. It seemed to me that the only areas, such as Warsaw and the western side of Poland, voted for the liberal candidate, and everywhere else, the votes went to Nawrocki. Is that true?
Sebastian Lukomski: Yeah, it’s a bit like when you see the map of the Electoral College after the elections. Of course, we know which states go red.
It’s a bit like the US Electoral College map, isn’t it? We know which states tend to vote for Republicans and which ones tend to vote for Democrats. However, when you examine the counties, it’s a sea of red, with very few exceptions. The same story played out here in Poland. It was a regional, local affair. Every district, especially on the east side, and even outside the big cities, was firmly in Nawrocki’s camp. His support was widespread, to put it mildly.
It was a bit of a rollercoaster. At the first exit poll at 9 p.m. on the day of the elections, Tchaikovsky was leading by 0.8 points. It was a head-scratcher for many, ‘OK, have they counted which part now and then are the next two outcomes, the final processing of the results?’ And then, out of the blue, Nawrocki emerges as the clear winner. It’s a classic case of cities going left and counties going right. Still, you’re right in saying that the map bears a striking resemblance to the Electoral College, with small districts, counties, and Poland not being heavily city-dominated.
It’s evenly spread around the country. So, so again, that showed that people care. And Nawrocki did speak to the people in the heart of the country, not just in the cities where Rafał Trzaskowski spoke to the elites, to the liberals, to the ones, to the people who want to be closer, you know, to Europe, the progressives in the big cities. And that was pretty much it. Historically, in Estonia or the US, conservatives are usually older men.
Mike Calamus: What I saw was that many young voters went to Nawrocki. This is what we are struggling to understand: how the conservatives could win the votes of young voters. So, can you explain that phenomenon? Yeah, this was incredible. And I think it’s a phenomenon that’s changing more.
Sebastian Lukomski: Now, we are living in a time where young people are slowly coming back to the right, to the conservative movement. And this is incredible. I think we must be experiencing the death of wokeism, of extreme liberalism, of progressivism. And we are seeing the rise of people who care about some kind of value, some kind of concrete human value, you know. And again, the issue of sovereignty, I repeat, because I think it was a fundamental issue in these elections, but also going forward, looking in the light, and let’s say in the scope of the European Union.
But you’re right. The young people in the first round achieved very high results, with the rise of a new right-wing candidate, Grzegorz Braun, who had not run before. He was a member of the European Parliament until then, known for his conservative views and strong stance on national sovereignty. And, part of the Confederation movement, which is also on the right, as we see him. So, those three parties, those three candidates, sorry, it was the Confederation that Slavoj Mircea ran.
Among the three, there was a substantial surge in voters under the age of 30. And why is this? I believe numerous factors can be deeply analyzed. But young people are the ones who envision the future. I believe this is the key difference between young and older voters.
Young people are deeply concerned about the future and have a much longer-term perspective than older generations. What does this imply? They don’t want to inherit a country that’s on a downward spiral. They aspire to a progressive country, one that is evolving and moving forward, experiencing economic growth rather than stagnation, a situation that plagues many European economies.
And this all came to light in these elections. Then obviously, I would also say that people don’t want mass migration. They want Poland not to repeat the mistakes of the West. They see this as incredible. However, they notice that Polish people who left the UK during Tusk’s era in 2007 are now returning because the quality of life and standards of living are higher in Poland than in the UK, Belgium, France, or Germany.
And this is what bothers the progressives. This is what bothers the ‘Eurocrats’, a term used to describe the bureaucrats and officials of the European Union. And this is what helps Poland rebuild and go forward. So, people are realizing that conservative values drive not only economic prosperity but also what is truly important in people’s hearts. That’s it: values, national sovereignty, and everything else.
Additionally, the historical element is a significant aspect, which I also emphasize when speaking to people outside Poland, as it is a huge part of the country’s and nation’s history, given what the country and nation endured over so many years. The oppressions, the wars, it’s huge going forward. They don’t want the government to just disappear as a colony of, you know, Germany, the EU, Brussels, or you name it.
Mike Calamus: When I was in Warsaw a couple of months ago, I was closely monitoring the elections. What I observed was that alarming instances of interference, such as people voting in multiple counties, were not isolated incidents.
And mostly they were, of course, liberals. But do you know of any bigger problems with those elections?
Sebastian Lukomski: I was aware of issues with vote casting and vote counting as early as 2023. This came to light very briefly. It was a bit strange.
Now, looking ahead to this year, and considering the upcoming presidential elections in May in Poland, I think that the Polish conservative movement is aware of interference in other EU countries. They’ve been putting their fingers in Romania. This upcoming election is of utmost importance, and we must be prepared.
They’ve been, you know, censoring and silencing dissent in Germany, in France. People were very concerned that Poland was a perfect country for them to exploit and get involved in, potentially leading to some fraud in their favor. Thankfully, the results were, to put it mildly, too big to fail. You can’t, you can’t revert that. Now, the Justice League, a term used to describe the collective efforts of the conservative movement, was too big.
However, the election results were undermined as recently as two weeks ago. They had to go to the Supreme Court in Poland. And the minister of interior and those governments were still pressing, saying that, no, that on the other side, that the conservatives have stolen it. This is a typical liberal narrative, a strategy often used to discredit the opposition. They will steal whatever they can, whenever they can, if they manage to do so.
And when the others win fair and square, they suddenly accuse, you know, their opposition. I mean, I think we’ve seen this in the US constantly. It’s a classic. It’s a classic rhetoric of the left. And we see that this time, thankfully, they failed.
Mike Calamus: The European Union, especially the European Union Commission, is trying to make the European Union more federal. What I’ve seen, for instance, in Romania, Estonia, and other countries, is that they appear to disregard the constitution. What about Donald Tusk and the Polish constitution? Is he respecting that, or is he doing the same thing that liberals are doing in other countries, that they don’t care about the law, anything?
Sebastian Lukomski: Well, Donald Tusk has been repeatedly breaking the Polish constitution in many of the great constitutions since the government.
He has a tiny public opinion about the Polish constitution, but that’s because he serves the interests of European elites, right? The European Commission, the European Parliament. And this draws the key problem here again. Who is Donald Tusk serving? Is he serving Polish people, and is he serving the constitution, which is the core of Polish governance?
Or are we all slowly, slowly, well, not even slowly anymore because the EU doesn’t hide it with how federalist they are becoming, you know, getting closer to the EU. I mean, we don’t have to; it’s no longer a secret. I used to say this many years ago when I was, you know, following Farage and Brexit. That was in Brussels, when Farage was waving goodbye to the Eurocrats and giving them the finger because they had managed something that looked impossible, something that seemed impossible. Breaking away from this federalist, centralized authoritarian totalitarian bloc, and it’s only gotten worse from then. I have also been closely analyzing the treaty reforms of the last few years, as they aim to eliminate the veto.
They’re trying to pressure Hungary because Hungary has been the one vetoing for the last few years, as Poland is now with the Tusk government. And the reforms are just another radical, centralized approach for the EU to gain complete power. I see this as a straightforward matter. Every empire, when it’s crumbling, panics. And I perfectly see this.
The EU is doing exactly that. I think they’re panicking. They are losing on every front. They are a failed, failed institution. They are money-grabbing totalitarian. And what’s happening now is they’re desperate.
They’re noticing that fewer people approve of them as a body. And they’re trying to censor. They’re trying to dissent. I mean, just recently, I was following the Digital Service Act, which outlines their approach to addressing misinformation ahead of elections. It’s incredible. They are trying to filter the information that European people receive before elections because they want to tilt the election in their favor, aiming to control the government in every member state. They want a government that’s a vassal of theirs. And by doing so, they want to centralize everything into one digital euro, into one army, into whatever it takes to destroy everything that is national sovereignty.
So, everything that Europe has been for so many centuries and millennia has been creating and fighting for. The beauty of Europe lies in its diverse countries, cultures, and languages; yet some seek to undermine it by federalizing it into a corrupt, bureaucratic, centralized approach. And this is why I think the EU is losing credibility and authority. And that’s why they’re panicking and taking crazy approaches, which is what they’re doing right now. Again, the one billion now, the one trillion in the new budget, again, from taxpayers’ money on eco nonsense, on funding wars, on misinformation.
This is the incredible thing we are paying for with taxpayers’ money. We are paying them to censor the information we are getting. Can you believe that, Mike? It’s unbelievable. And I think they have got away with murder for too long, for way too long.
And they are starting to see that there’s, you know, there’s small movements, but strong movements in every country that are beginning to say, no, no, no, no. We need to put an end to this because this is getting seriously dangerous. It’s time for us to stand together, united in our fight to preserve our national sovereignty.
Mike Calamus: One last question before we go. What do you think your opinion is? Should Poland leave the EU?
Sebastian Lukomski: One hundred percent. If you asked me 10 years ago, I would have said I would have thought about it twice. I would like to leave. I was always a strong Eurosceptic from the very beginning, dating back to when I was living in the UK. I was always very close to the Leave movement, then to the Brexit Party.
I’ve had euroscepticism running through my veins for many years, perhaps before many people. But if you ask me 10 years from now, in the current situation, I would say maybe they still need some time. Seeing the way things have gone. One hundred percent. It’s yes, it’s not even that you can’t even think about it anymore. The situation is urgent, and we need to act now.
This is a fight for sovereignty, a battle over whether Poland will survive as an independent country or become a colony of foreign interests, including those of Brussels and Germany. One hundred percent. Poland must leave. There is no doubt about it. I will continue to advocate for this in my future projects.
And I think other countries should follow suit. I believe the European Union will eventually collapse. And it will start somewhere. I mean, it started with the UK, and what Faraj did needs to be repeated. The UK’s decision to leave the EU, known as Brexit, was a significant event that inspired many of us who believe in national sovereignty. The problem I see in Poland is that the electorate is not ready.
The people still perhaps need to understand the threat that the EU poses. I think the recent polls indicate that over 70 percent are still relatively happy with the EU. So, we need to start by changing the narrative, by understanding, by explaining to people, and by exposing what the EU is doing. It’s crucial that we all educate ourselves about the EU and its actions. Slowly, we should begin to change our course on how things should be, because this is unacceptable. This is one of the most significant threats to Poland’s future. I would say it’s one of the biggest threats to Poland’s future.
It’s not any other borders, but it’s the bureaucrats in Brussels. People need to wake up to what is happening, as it’s unfolding on every front: from election interference to centralization, to the erosion of sovereignty, to mass migration. Do you think mass migration is just there because, you know, someone just came up with the idea? No, it’s to destroy the nature that is inside the, let’s say, the nature of the society in Poland, in countries which have continuously been operating that way, have always been living together that way, have had one religion to unite them, have one culture to join them. So, yeah, make no mistakes. For instance, the EU’s migration policies have led to a significant influx of migrants, threatening the homogeneity of our society.
This is this is one massive attack to destabilize and ultimately destroy and buy the Polish the Polish nation. This is not just a political stance for me, it’s personal. This is my opinion on the future of the EU and Poland. And I 100 percent will always press for any movement that seeks to remove us from EU control.
Mike Calamus: OK, so hopefully, we’ll talk to you next time, and maybe next time we’ll discuss what’s happening in the UK. So, thank you so much. Sounds good.
Sebastian Lukomski: Sounds good. Thank you so much for having me, Mike. Thank you. Bye-bye.
